TanyaT
7th May 2004, 14:33
Fans Forum report April O4.
Gary Hirst
The final Forum was held sat 24th April prior to the Liverpool game.
Prior to the meeting I had circulated a proposal put forward by SU member Michael Crick to improve the away ticket system. It was a method of fairly recognising loyalty without condemning many to fruitless years of application. It would have a weighting system and an element of proportionality. It articulated the views and ideas many members had expressed. At the meeting the Forum sadly voted to not debate the options further but to ratify its desision form the last meeting (114 relegation/promotion.) This decision was as much about lack of time as opposition to the ideas. I did however get an acknolagement that the system was still in need of improvement and a pledge that the review process would be undertaken with the Ticket Office and Forum next season.
The Club presented a number of proposals in order to improve the efficiency of the Forum. There was a broad consensus that the meetings often lack direction, debate becomes flabby and time too short. The changes agreed to be implemented next season will be:
· Meetings to be held on non-match days, creating more time and focus.
· Minutes to be made in synopsis form, more accessible but attributable to named individuals.
· Meetings to be chaired by David Gill not Electoral Reform rep.
Generally these are positive moves. I voted against loosing an independent chair but understand David Gills desire to drive the meetings away from a talking shop and toward a pragmatic and solution based end. He acknowledged my concerns and knows we will be scrutinising his impartiality! We also argued strongly for points to be attributed to members in minutes. There are often comments made and positions taken that I do not want myself or SU to be associated with and our membership should have record of that.
The main focus of the meeting was Away ticket allocation / Safe standing / Kick off times with Simon Johnson, Director of Legal & Business Affairs at The FA Premier League in attendance.
He informed us that due to persistent standing and perceived safety issues with some away support and the resultant reductions in allocations by some Local Authorities, the FAPL had this season been monitoring the situation. They have identified 9 clubs who are the “worst offenders”, 7 PL and 2 Div 1 Clubs. He would not tell us who they were but MUFC were one of them. He like many Clubs passed the buck and rolled out the line about responsibility for this action was with the local authorities and the PL hands were tide. The pressure came form the LAs’ and Football Licensing Authority but as a result of the monitoring they will be meeting with PL Clubs and the 2 Div 1 clubs in June to debate the issue and look for a way forward. I made a plea that as Fans had not been consulted at any stage in this seasons monitoring and as it was us who is directly affect, it is only fair that we are involved in this meeting. He stressed that it was for clubs only, fans were not invited. I highlighted the madness of this and he agreed that we could contact him and he would welcome fans comments.
Vas Wackrill of IMUSA made an excellent point on the Trafford Borough Council leaked safety report on Old Trafford (www.IMUSA.org for details). Astonishingly nobody at the PL has seen the report and he was therefore unable to comment but would request a copy ASAP. The club denied that it had interfered with the findings prior to publishing. For the record they stated they didn’t have the report suppressed. The Club saw the interim report, and on their recommendation some aspects were withdrawn. That clears that up then…
Some glimmers of hope came from Simons comments that the PL are “ not convinced standing is unsafe” but they would need evidence “to prove it is safe”. They believe they have a responsibility to get their house in order on the subject but recognise there are “strong arguments to support standing” and they need to “look at arguments on the other side”. The Forum is another fans body that must ensure they do just that.
With regard to Kick Off times the amount of televised games will increase to 138 from 106 and with continued sign up to a European ruling that they will not show live games between 3 –5 on a Saturday, more disruption can be expected. However there is now a 6-week minimum notice period for Pay Per view fixture changes.
Finally the Forum reiterated its disappointment at the Ticket price increases especially the Credit Card admin charge. IMUSA pointed out that the Club stood to potentially raise three quarters of a million and this was an unacceptable, stealth charge. Nick Humbys response was short but far from sweet. Visibly cross, he defended the need to raise money and this was one way.
Conclusion / Season Review.
The Loyalty Pot System has dominated the forum this season. The club have expressed a desire that ticketing not be the predominate issue in the fixture. My response to this is two fold: One, it’s to the Clubs credit and a sign of a fully functioning forum that ticketing is being improved, especially as this was the very issue that caused many fans to lose credibility in the FF early in its history. And two that if the issue was solved and there was a fair, effective and transparent system throughout, the issue would not need to be debated!
I like the club hope that that day can come sooner rather than later.
In many respects the issue is disproportionate to others and next season is a vital one for the forum. Issues that surround the redevelopment of the ground will play a core role. Ground configuration and OT demographics, ticket pricing, safety and safe standing will be at the fore.
Gary Hirst
The final Forum was held sat 24th April prior to the Liverpool game.
Prior to the meeting I had circulated a proposal put forward by SU member Michael Crick to improve the away ticket system. It was a method of fairly recognising loyalty without condemning many to fruitless years of application. It would have a weighting system and an element of proportionality. It articulated the views and ideas many members had expressed. At the meeting the Forum sadly voted to not debate the options further but to ratify its desision form the last meeting (114 relegation/promotion.) This decision was as much about lack of time as opposition to the ideas. I did however get an acknolagement that the system was still in need of improvement and a pledge that the review process would be undertaken with the Ticket Office and Forum next season.
The Club presented a number of proposals in order to improve the efficiency of the Forum. There was a broad consensus that the meetings often lack direction, debate becomes flabby and time too short. The changes agreed to be implemented next season will be:
· Meetings to be held on non-match days, creating more time and focus.
· Minutes to be made in synopsis form, more accessible but attributable to named individuals.
· Meetings to be chaired by David Gill not Electoral Reform rep.
Generally these are positive moves. I voted against loosing an independent chair but understand David Gills desire to drive the meetings away from a talking shop and toward a pragmatic and solution based end. He acknowledged my concerns and knows we will be scrutinising his impartiality! We also argued strongly for points to be attributed to members in minutes. There are often comments made and positions taken that I do not want myself or SU to be associated with and our membership should have record of that.
The main focus of the meeting was Away ticket allocation / Safe standing / Kick off times with Simon Johnson, Director of Legal & Business Affairs at The FA Premier League in attendance.
He informed us that due to persistent standing and perceived safety issues with some away support and the resultant reductions in allocations by some Local Authorities, the FAPL had this season been monitoring the situation. They have identified 9 clubs who are the “worst offenders”, 7 PL and 2 Div 1 Clubs. He would not tell us who they were but MUFC were one of them. He like many Clubs passed the buck and rolled out the line about responsibility for this action was with the local authorities and the PL hands were tide. The pressure came form the LAs’ and Football Licensing Authority but as a result of the monitoring they will be meeting with PL Clubs and the 2 Div 1 clubs in June to debate the issue and look for a way forward. I made a plea that as Fans had not been consulted at any stage in this seasons monitoring and as it was us who is directly affect, it is only fair that we are involved in this meeting. He stressed that it was for clubs only, fans were not invited. I highlighted the madness of this and he agreed that we could contact him and he would welcome fans comments.
Vas Wackrill of IMUSA made an excellent point on the Trafford Borough Council leaked safety report on Old Trafford (www.IMUSA.org for details). Astonishingly nobody at the PL has seen the report and he was therefore unable to comment but would request a copy ASAP. The club denied that it had interfered with the findings prior to publishing. For the record they stated they didn’t have the report suppressed. The Club saw the interim report, and on their recommendation some aspects were withdrawn. That clears that up then…
Some glimmers of hope came from Simons comments that the PL are “ not convinced standing is unsafe” but they would need evidence “to prove it is safe”. They believe they have a responsibility to get their house in order on the subject but recognise there are “strong arguments to support standing” and they need to “look at arguments on the other side”. The Forum is another fans body that must ensure they do just that.
With regard to Kick Off times the amount of televised games will increase to 138 from 106 and with continued sign up to a European ruling that they will not show live games between 3 –5 on a Saturday, more disruption can be expected. However there is now a 6-week minimum notice period for Pay Per view fixture changes.
Finally the Forum reiterated its disappointment at the Ticket price increases especially the Credit Card admin charge. IMUSA pointed out that the Club stood to potentially raise three quarters of a million and this was an unacceptable, stealth charge. Nick Humbys response was short but far from sweet. Visibly cross, he defended the need to raise money and this was one way.
Conclusion / Season Review.
The Loyalty Pot System has dominated the forum this season. The club have expressed a desire that ticketing not be the predominate issue in the fixture. My response to this is two fold: One, it’s to the Clubs credit and a sign of a fully functioning forum that ticketing is being improved, especially as this was the very issue that caused many fans to lose credibility in the FF early in its history. And two that if the issue was solved and there was a fair, effective and transparent system throughout, the issue would not need to be debated!
I like the club hope that that day can come sooner rather than later.
In many respects the issue is disproportionate to others and next season is a vital one for the forum. Issues that surround the redevelopment of the ground will play a core role. Ground configuration and OT demographics, ticket pricing, safety and safe standing will be at the fore.